You gave no scripture and ignored the ones I gave. I am objecting to INSTITUTIONALIZED HIERARCHY leadership.
“ There will always be need for corporate assemblies among fellow believers…” There is no “corporation” in your alleged scripture on elders or deacons, or ANYWHERE in the NT. No gifting, not even “teaching” is in a hierarchy or reserved for pulpit and pew ritual. You don’t have to say a word about “seating” but when you say “corporate worship” I know the seating dictated and you do also, but you argue that you didn’t say it when you did. Jesus rejected titled leaders as being “anti-brother” and pro-exalting. Matthew 23:8-12. But titled leaders get truth expression RESERVED for them in “corporate worship.” You have yet to respond to God’s instructions for “meeting together” that are REVERSED in “corporate” assembly.
“Yet you attacked me.”
Please quote my “attack”. I gave scripture, the judgements of God to “rebuke and correct” you and not with my opinion.
“…very littlle…addressed anything I actually said…”
You said far more than you are willing to admit, and I have pointed you to it. You are merely arguing making false accusations about what I said. I am patient to expose them to you. I quoted you. Are you blind to that?
“…THAT is the opposite of building up…”
“Rebuke and correction” are 2 of the 4 purposes of edification with scripture. If you are blind to that, you need to grow into receiving this. My first post is LOADED with scripture to “rebuke and correct “corporate assemblies” that have phony requirements ASSUMED into scripture:
1. Where are divided corporate names instructed in scripture? No where. They are rejected by Jesus as showing the lost that they are not “perfectly one” which shows He is not ‘perfectly one with the father”. John 17:20-23
2. Where are the corporate pulpit and pew buildings in the Bible, ALL of which REVERSE God’s instructions for “meeting together”. Even “teaching” is “teaching and admonishing one another…” Col. 3:16. There is no lecture teaching dominated by men with Bible degrees ANYWHERE in the NT, but you believe it’s there for “corporate assembly”.
“I have no room for my faith being attacked online.”
This is a lie against me to deflect from the scripture I gave that EXPOSES institutionalized corruption baked into your “corporate assemblies.” I now what that means, yet you posture you don’t mean that ritual by that. You have “no room” for being EXPOSED with scripture.
Ephesians 5:13
But when anything is EXPOSED by the light,
it becomes visible,
Titus 1:9
He must hold firm to the trustworthy word as taught,
so that he may be able to give instruction in sound doctrine
and also to rebuke (EXPOSE) those who contradict it.
Titus 2:15 Declare these things;
exhort and rebuke (EXPOSE) with all authority.
Let no one disregard you.
So far, you have YET to respond specifically to one of the many scriptures I have given. This shows you are BLIND to the authority of scripture when it EXPOSES your sin and error.
“ There will always be need for corporate assemblies among fellow believers.”
Based on what in God’s word?
1. God’s instructions for “meeting together”? No Those instructions are the OPPOSITE of pulpit and pew.
Hebrews 10:24-25
24 AND LET US (all of us)
CONSIDER HOW (prepare in advance of meeting)
to stir up ONE ANOTHER (dialogue, no lecture)
to LOVE AND GOOD WORKS, (BEYOND merely more knowledge)
25 not neglecting to MEET TOGETHER, (not just being in the same room)
as is the habit of some,
but encouraging ONE ANOTHER, (again, no sermon)
and ALL THE MORE
as you see the Day drawing near.
2. Teaching and admonishing? No God’s instructions for that are the REVERSE of pulpit and pew
Colossians 3:16
Let the word of Christ dwell in you RICHLY,
TEACHING AND ADMONISHING ONE ANOTHER
in ALL WISDOM,
singing psalms and hymns and spiritual songs,
with thankfulness in your hearts to God.
3. Sing praise to God? No, the previous verse called for “one another” driven singing, not hired expert driven singing.
4. Worship? No. When all these scriptures are REVERSED, it isn’t worship. Worship must be OBEDIENCE. God taught us that with Cain many centuries ago. He has not started accepting men’s own opinions of worship.
We should “one another” about this. That would be worship and teaching. There is MUCH MORE scripture that shows pulpit and pew rituals are a REVERSE of what God instructed.
I think saying what we have is the opposite of God's command using Hebrews context is swinging too far. I believe there's an element of fellowship, discussion, asking questions and clarification, edification. But the idea that everyone is an equal in a round table when we gather is not biblical or practical. Practically, in a large group- to sing, to pray, to teach, there needs to be someone who leads. Unless everyone sings their own song simultaneously, prays by themselves, reads to themselves... God's people have always had leaders. The were prophets and priests. Jesus preached sermons, the disciples peaches sermons. People were illiterate, they were read to by someone. There's a scriptural basis for elders and deacons-leaders.
However you want to arrange people so that a person is speaking or reading the Scripture can be heard isn't against the Bibles teaching by any means and I believe the Hebrews context doesn't contradict this. I believe it's supplemental to the time of gathering.
I gave scripture, and you trashed it. You made claims with no scripture. Of course there are leaders but they are not corporation leaders. EVERY believer has a direct connection to the head - Jesus. Leaders are "example setting" where the rest "imitate". Hebrews. 13:7, 1 Peter 5:2. There are NO INSTITUTIONS, no pulpits and pews in the Bible, just like there is no pope or rosarries. You are walking by sight, not be faith. Your confidence is in traditions of men, not the word of God.
Mark 7:13 thus making void the word of God
by your tradition that you have handed down.
And many such things you do."
Luke 16:15 And he said to them,
"You are those who justify yourselves before men,
but God knows your hearts.
For what is exalted among men
is an abomination in the sight of God.
The MAJORITY of believers around the world will NEVER have an institution or a hired man with a Bible degree. They are too poor, too remote, or two oppressed. You look at church through an ethnocentric lens of wealth where it's been that way for 500 years so you ASSUME that into the Bible. God has NO INSTRUCTIONS ONLY THE WEALTHY CAN AFFORD. You force God into wealth favoritism.
Jesus preached sermons to the LOST maybe ONCE, not to those who had heard 2000 already and are paying for one every week until they die. Jesus NEVER did the pulpit version of sermon, but you are blind to that. So you trash the "meeting together" defined by God as merely "supplemental, when it's all there is. God has given SPIRIT gifts to ALL BELIEVERS and they are to MANIFEST, which involves speaking. They love being spectators and you pander to that. They love CONSUMING 84% of their giving to pay for hired men who are not an example to imitate and pulpit buildings. You have been deceived to REVERSE God's instructions, and you don't know it.
Our equality is EXACTLY biblical for building up the household of faith. "you are all brothers." It is practical but you have never seen it so your faith is lacking when driven by only sight. I gave you scripture for it, yet you claim it is not biblical.
You have never seen believers taught to meet together on a weekly basis in big groups in scripture, yet you think it is ESSENTIAL. There were less than 5 large group meetings over the years in Acts but you make a false claim that they are essential.
You claim I have no biblical reference for leadership within God's people. Have you never heard of prophets and priests? Did you not read theTitus requirements for elders and deacons? Who read scriptures to illiterate farmers? Who brought the word from Jerusalem to the other cities and nations? If a man has a gift of teaching, let him teach. I made no claim to ministry as a paid vocation. I made no claim to seating arrangements. Yet you attacked me. Very little of your responses addressed anything I actually said and you missed the point completely. You even attacked my character with no basis. THAT is the opposite of building up, edification, and encouragement. Your way of responding to discussion of ideas is why people leave. I have no room for my faith being attacked online.
“You claim I have no biblical reference….”
You gave no scripture and ignored the ones I gave. I am objecting to INSTITUTIONALIZED HIERARCHY leadership.
“ There will always be need for corporate assemblies among fellow believers…” There is no “corporation” in your alleged scripture on elders or deacons, or ANYWHERE in the NT. No gifting, not even “teaching” is in a hierarchy or reserved for pulpit and pew ritual. You don’t have to say a word about “seating” but when you say “corporate worship” I know the seating dictated and you do also, but you argue that you didn’t say it when you did. Jesus rejected titled leaders as being “anti-brother” and pro-exalting. Matthew 23:8-12. But titled leaders get truth expression RESERVED for them in “corporate worship.” You have yet to respond to God’s instructions for “meeting together” that are REVERSED in “corporate” assembly.
“Yet you attacked me.”
Please quote my “attack”. I gave scripture, the judgements of God to “rebuke and correct” you and not with my opinion.
“…very littlle…addressed anything I actually said…”
You said far more than you are willing to admit, and I have pointed you to it. You are merely arguing making false accusations about what I said. I am patient to expose them to you. I quoted you. Are you blind to that?
“…THAT is the opposite of building up…”
“Rebuke and correction” are 2 of the 4 purposes of edification with scripture. If you are blind to that, you need to grow into receiving this. My first post is LOADED with scripture to “rebuke and correct “corporate assemblies” that have phony requirements ASSUMED into scripture:
1. Where are divided corporate names instructed in scripture? No where. They are rejected by Jesus as showing the lost that they are not “perfectly one” which shows He is not ‘perfectly one with the father”. John 17:20-23
2. Where are the corporate pulpit and pew buildings in the Bible, ALL of which REVERSE God’s instructions for “meeting together”. Even “teaching” is “teaching and admonishing one another…” Col. 3:16. There is no lecture teaching dominated by men with Bible degrees ANYWHERE in the NT, but you believe it’s there for “corporate assembly”.
“I have no room for my faith being attacked online.”
This is a lie against me to deflect from the scripture I gave that EXPOSES institutionalized corruption baked into your “corporate assemblies.” I now what that means, yet you posture you don’t mean that ritual by that. You have “no room” for being EXPOSED with scripture.
Ephesians 5:13
But when anything is EXPOSED by the light,
it becomes visible,
Titus 1:9
He must hold firm to the trustworthy word as taught,
so that he may be able to give instruction in sound doctrine
and also to rebuke (EXPOSE) those who contradict it.
Titus 2:15 Declare these things;
exhort and rebuke (EXPOSE) with all authority.
Let no one disregard you.
So far, you have YET to respond specifically to one of the many scriptures I have given. This shows you are BLIND to the authority of scripture when it EXPOSES your sin and error.
“ There will always be need for corporate assemblies among fellow believers.”
Based on what in God’s word?
1. God’s instructions for “meeting together”? No Those instructions are the OPPOSITE of pulpit and pew.
Hebrews 10:24-25
24 AND LET US (all of us)
CONSIDER HOW (prepare in advance of meeting)
to stir up ONE ANOTHER (dialogue, no lecture)
to LOVE AND GOOD WORKS, (BEYOND merely more knowledge)
25 not neglecting to MEET TOGETHER, (not just being in the same room)
as is the habit of some,
but encouraging ONE ANOTHER, (again, no sermon)
and ALL THE MORE
as you see the Day drawing near.
2. Teaching and admonishing? No God’s instructions for that are the REVERSE of pulpit and pew
Colossians 3:16
Let the word of Christ dwell in you RICHLY,
TEACHING AND ADMONISHING ONE ANOTHER
in ALL WISDOM,
singing psalms and hymns and spiritual songs,
with thankfulness in your hearts to God.
3. Sing praise to God? No, the previous verse called for “one another” driven singing, not hired expert driven singing.
4. Worship? No. When all these scriptures are REVERSED, it isn’t worship. Worship must be OBEDIENCE. God taught us that with Cain many centuries ago. He has not started accepting men’s own opinions of worship.
We should “one another” about this. That would be worship and teaching. There is MUCH MORE scripture that shows pulpit and pew rituals are a REVERSE of what God instructed.
I think saying what we have is the opposite of God's command using Hebrews context is swinging too far. I believe there's an element of fellowship, discussion, asking questions and clarification, edification. But the idea that everyone is an equal in a round table when we gather is not biblical or practical. Practically, in a large group- to sing, to pray, to teach, there needs to be someone who leads. Unless everyone sings their own song simultaneously, prays by themselves, reads to themselves... God's people have always had leaders. The were prophets and priests. Jesus preached sermons, the disciples peaches sermons. People were illiterate, they were read to by someone. There's a scriptural basis for elders and deacons-leaders.
However you want to arrange people so that a person is speaking or reading the Scripture can be heard isn't against the Bibles teaching by any means and I believe the Hebrews context doesn't contradict this. I believe it's supplemental to the time of gathering.
I gave scripture, and you trashed it. You made claims with no scripture. Of course there are leaders but they are not corporation leaders. EVERY believer has a direct connection to the head - Jesus. Leaders are "example setting" where the rest "imitate". Hebrews. 13:7, 1 Peter 5:2. There are NO INSTITUTIONS, no pulpits and pews in the Bible, just like there is no pope or rosarries. You are walking by sight, not be faith. Your confidence is in traditions of men, not the word of God.
Mark 7:13 thus making void the word of God
by your tradition that you have handed down.
And many such things you do."
Luke 16:15 And he said to them,
"You are those who justify yourselves before men,
but God knows your hearts.
For what is exalted among men
is an abomination in the sight of God.
The MAJORITY of believers around the world will NEVER have an institution or a hired man with a Bible degree. They are too poor, too remote, or two oppressed. You look at church through an ethnocentric lens of wealth where it's been that way for 500 years so you ASSUME that into the Bible. God has NO INSTRUCTIONS ONLY THE WEALTHY CAN AFFORD. You force God into wealth favoritism.
Jesus preached sermons to the LOST maybe ONCE, not to those who had heard 2000 already and are paying for one every week until they die. Jesus NEVER did the pulpit version of sermon, but you are blind to that. So you trash the "meeting together" defined by God as merely "supplemental, when it's all there is. God has given SPIRIT gifts to ALL BELIEVERS and they are to MANIFEST, which involves speaking. They love being spectators and you pander to that. They love CONSUMING 84% of their giving to pay for hired men who are not an example to imitate and pulpit buildings. You have been deceived to REVERSE God's instructions, and you don't know it.
Our equality is EXACTLY biblical for building up the household of faith. "you are all brothers." It is practical but you have never seen it so your faith is lacking when driven by only sight. I gave you scripture for it, yet you claim it is not biblical.
You have never seen believers taught to meet together on a weekly basis in big groups in scripture, yet you think it is ESSENTIAL. There were less than 5 large group meetings over the years in Acts but you make a false claim that they are essential.
You claim I have no biblical reference for leadership within God's people. Have you never heard of prophets and priests? Did you not read theTitus requirements for elders and deacons? Who read scriptures to illiterate farmers? Who brought the word from Jerusalem to the other cities and nations? If a man has a gift of teaching, let him teach. I made no claim to ministry as a paid vocation. I made no claim to seating arrangements. Yet you attacked me. Very little of your responses addressed anything I actually said and you missed the point completely. You even attacked my character with no basis. THAT is the opposite of building up, edification, and encouragement. Your way of responding to discussion of ideas is why people leave. I have no room for my faith being attacked online.
After I finished reading this, into my mind came this scripture:
Ps 42:7
Deep calls to deep…