I'm not a minister. But I have been turned down for jobs more than I care to admit. Here are some things I have learned in my season of occupational rejections, sometimes I didn't have a good interview. Sometimes someone else was better for the job. Sometimes they hired their buddy instead of the right person for the job. Sometimes the person hiring was unqualified to hire someone for the job. Sometimes they flipped a coin. One time I was told I had the best interview out of all the other candidates but didn't get the job because the other guy was “groomed” for the position. Another thing I just thought about is, SOMEONE hired the Executive Pastor who can't do anything for himself! Go figure. It's a jacked-up world we live in. Don't beat yourself up.
My flow of experience has left me wondering to what extent organized religion in the western Christian world even vaguely resembles what God desires. I have a undergraduate Bible degree from ACU and a masters in Bible from LCU. Every church I worked for experienced significant growth and an increase in evangelism. But my silly ideals that it's a bad idea to cover up and ignore sexual impropriety by leaders and/or members (in 3 different churches!) and that it's a good idea to adopt (imperfect) kids from orphanages in Russia eventually led to me being undesirable to have on a church staff.
Interestingly enough my brother has had a similar journey of discovery. He retired at age 54 and went on staff at the Gateway church in Southlake, TX with Robert Morris as the senior pastor. If you have watched the news lately you will have seen https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/even-the-largest-churches-can-fall-will-gateway-survive-morris-sex-abuse-scandal/ar-BB1oSEva?ocid=BingNewsSerp that Robert Morris has lots of problems. My brother discovered early on after going on staff as a pastor there that there were significant levels of financial deception going on that involved millions and millions of dollars being funneled into the pockets of specific people. He also became aware of multiple situations in which the church was covering up and for people who were or had been involved in sexual improprieties. He made the mistake of asking questions which led to the pitchforks coming out and him being run off.
My brother and I both came to realize through firsthand experience that power and money were killing churches. Every church I worked for liked to say that they had to run the church like a business which was code for saying whoever gave the most money got to decide what happened. The mega churches have taken the church as a business model to the extreme saying they are giving God their best which results in a drive to obtain staff that best achieves their goals. Churches tend to view pastors/ministers as a disposable asset that are hired to achieve a goal and disposed of when that goal is achieved or when the person does not match the money and power goals of the church. Therefore young good looking people are hired but as time goes along those people become more expensive to keep around which leaves the church seeking greener pastures. Combine that with a select group of senior pastors/senior ministers that have learned how to surf the power/money environment of churches and stay on top, look around, how many senior pastors are surprisingly old and have a bizarre grip on power?!
All the years I was in ministry I was underpaid and made to feel guilty if I ever gave the appearance of having enough money. There was year after year where there were no raises. I finally decided this has to change so I approached Hal Elrod who was a former executive minister from First Colony church in Sugar Land and talked to him about going into real estate full time. I got my license but then was chased by another church and eventually agreed to go on staff there for 6 years until my discovery of a scandal involving the preacher allowed them to combine that with the fact that I had adult children who were gay and send me packing. God blessed my time at that church but the reality is I would have been so much better off if I had not agreed to go on staff at the new church and had just gone straight into real estate. The last church harmed my wife and kids so bad that I’m not sure they will ever step foot into another church building the rest of their life. I handed over my real estate career to God and literally prayed God you have to make this work or we are going to go bankrupt. God has been faithful! I have been one of the top 3 agents in my office of 300 agents this year.
I firmly believe God has been leading my journey, as strange as it has been. The pain of all my years of ministry and education became such a thorn because I was at the top of my ministry ‘game’ and yet no church wanted me that I finally took my entire library to half price books and sold it. Every single book. It was a lot of boxes! I literally had to hang my ministry career up in the closet. I did not want to do that but it was what had happened.
However, God continues to lead me into ministry in the most fascinating ways. There is a kid from my last church that I became his safe place, living with his grandmother who had a leg amputated, birth mother who is a disaster, birth father committed suicide, he calls me dad at this point. I listed a house for a church member from my last church, when I showed up with the photographer the wife was crying, I discovered she had just gotten off the phone with one of the elders who told her her elementary aged children were no longer allowed to attend bible class or summer camps since she questioned why one of the adults working with the children’s ministry was treating the children. God used my horrible departure from that church to be able to tell them it’s not you, it’s them. They have now bought a new house across town and have fallen in love with their new church.
So departure from paid ministry is not a bad thing. It has allowed me to begin a process of healing from the emotional and financial harm done by church after church. Is that the solution for others? Who knows. It is where God has led me. I pray now more than ever, and a lot of times my prayer is God, I don’t get it, but here I am, on a sabbatical from church so that I can grow in my faith and reformat my mind to recognize the bigger picture of what God is up to in the world and figure out where I fit in now.
I've enjoyed getting to know you over the years, Tim. Thanks for continuing to share your story with myself and others. I know you've endured plenty in your various ministries, and I'm thankful to know you are ministering still today. Blessings on you as you bless others - especially those who may not attend or have a great experience with a local churches.
Dave, I was unemployed once for about 6 months. I know job searches are TOUGH. I find great encouragement in the way the NASB95 translates Rom 8:28. If memory serves me correctly- “God CAUSES all things to work together for good.” May that encourage you. (FYI. I never found a paid ministry position. I ended up doing working for free. I was a “good for NOTHING” minister).😂
Have you considered doing a church plant...essentially, entrepreneurial evangelism? I realize that won't address your immediate financial needs -- a problem plaguing all of us ex-church employees -- but I think it could at least supply what sounds like a hunger for meaningful spiritual vocation. If you feel called by God (and I think you do), perhaps it isn't necessary to get a call back from His HR department. Maybe you just go to work?
Thank you, Justin. I have considered this plenty over the years. At this stage, I am open if God gives me reason to believe He is calling me to it. Appreciate you, friend.
Thank you, Anna. I appreciate your continued support and encouragement. Those books ARE in the garage already, so maybe this isn't such a bad idea - ha! Blessings on you and yours.
I'm not a minister. But I have been turned down for jobs more than I care to admit. Here are some things I have learned in my season of occupational rejections, sometimes I didn't have a good interview. Sometimes someone else was better for the job. Sometimes they hired their buddy instead of the right person for the job. Sometimes the person hiring was unqualified to hire someone for the job. Sometimes they flipped a coin. One time I was told I had the best interview out of all the other candidates but didn't get the job because the other guy was “groomed” for the position. Another thing I just thought about is, SOMEONE hired the Executive Pastor who can't do anything for himself! Go figure. It's a jacked-up world we live in. Don't beat yourself up.
By the way, I'm reading your book. Good thoughts.
Thanks for this, Ross.
My flow of experience has left me wondering to what extent organized religion in the western Christian world even vaguely resembles what God desires. I have a undergraduate Bible degree from ACU and a masters in Bible from LCU. Every church I worked for experienced significant growth and an increase in evangelism. But my silly ideals that it's a bad idea to cover up and ignore sexual impropriety by leaders and/or members (in 3 different churches!) and that it's a good idea to adopt (imperfect) kids from orphanages in Russia eventually led to me being undesirable to have on a church staff.
Interestingly enough my brother has had a similar journey of discovery. He retired at age 54 and went on staff at the Gateway church in Southlake, TX with Robert Morris as the senior pastor. If you have watched the news lately you will have seen https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/even-the-largest-churches-can-fall-will-gateway-survive-morris-sex-abuse-scandal/ar-BB1oSEva?ocid=BingNewsSerp that Robert Morris has lots of problems. My brother discovered early on after going on staff as a pastor there that there were significant levels of financial deception going on that involved millions and millions of dollars being funneled into the pockets of specific people. He also became aware of multiple situations in which the church was covering up and for people who were or had been involved in sexual improprieties. He made the mistake of asking questions which led to the pitchforks coming out and him being run off.
My brother and I both came to realize through firsthand experience that power and money were killing churches. Every church I worked for liked to say that they had to run the church like a business which was code for saying whoever gave the most money got to decide what happened. The mega churches have taken the church as a business model to the extreme saying they are giving God their best which results in a drive to obtain staff that best achieves their goals. Churches tend to view pastors/ministers as a disposable asset that are hired to achieve a goal and disposed of when that goal is achieved or when the person does not match the money and power goals of the church. Therefore young good looking people are hired but as time goes along those people become more expensive to keep around which leaves the church seeking greener pastures. Combine that with a select group of senior pastors/senior ministers that have learned how to surf the power/money environment of churches and stay on top, look around, how many senior pastors are surprisingly old and have a bizarre grip on power?!
All the years I was in ministry I was underpaid and made to feel guilty if I ever gave the appearance of having enough money. There was year after year where there were no raises. I finally decided this has to change so I approached Hal Elrod who was a former executive minister from First Colony church in Sugar Land and talked to him about going into real estate full time. I got my license but then was chased by another church and eventually agreed to go on staff there for 6 years until my discovery of a scandal involving the preacher allowed them to combine that with the fact that I had adult children who were gay and send me packing. God blessed my time at that church but the reality is I would have been so much better off if I had not agreed to go on staff at the new church and had just gone straight into real estate. The last church harmed my wife and kids so bad that I’m not sure they will ever step foot into another church building the rest of their life. I handed over my real estate career to God and literally prayed God you have to make this work or we are going to go bankrupt. God has been faithful! I have been one of the top 3 agents in my office of 300 agents this year.
I firmly believe God has been leading my journey, as strange as it has been. The pain of all my years of ministry and education became such a thorn because I was at the top of my ministry ‘game’ and yet no church wanted me that I finally took my entire library to half price books and sold it. Every single book. It was a lot of boxes! I literally had to hang my ministry career up in the closet. I did not want to do that but it was what had happened.
However, God continues to lead me into ministry in the most fascinating ways. There is a kid from my last church that I became his safe place, living with his grandmother who had a leg amputated, birth mother who is a disaster, birth father committed suicide, he calls me dad at this point. I listed a house for a church member from my last church, when I showed up with the photographer the wife was crying, I discovered she had just gotten off the phone with one of the elders who told her her elementary aged children were no longer allowed to attend bible class or summer camps since she questioned why one of the adults working with the children’s ministry was treating the children. God used my horrible departure from that church to be able to tell them it’s not you, it’s them. They have now bought a new house across town and have fallen in love with their new church.
So departure from paid ministry is not a bad thing. It has allowed me to begin a process of healing from the emotional and financial harm done by church after church. Is that the solution for others? Who knows. It is where God has led me. I pray now more than ever, and a lot of times my prayer is God, I don’t get it, but here I am, on a sabbatical from church so that I can grow in my faith and reformat my mind to recognize the bigger picture of what God is up to in the world and figure out where I fit in now.
I've enjoyed getting to know you over the years, Tim. Thanks for continuing to share your story with myself and others. I know you've endured plenty in your various ministries, and I'm thankful to know you are ministering still today. Blessings on you as you bless others - especially those who may not attend or have a great experience with a local churches.
Dave, I was unemployed once for about 6 months. I know job searches are TOUGH. I find great encouragement in the way the NASB95 translates Rom 8:28. If memory serves me correctly- “God CAUSES all things to work together for good.” May that encourage you. (FYI. I never found a paid ministry position. I ended up doing working for free. I was a “good for NOTHING” minister).😂
Steve
Thanks for this encouragement, Steve. I appreciate your gentle spirit and joyful demeanor - qualities I hope to gain over time, myself.
You’re too kind. I just try to glorify God.
Have you considered doing a church plant...essentially, entrepreneurial evangelism? I realize that won't address your immediate financial needs -- a problem plaguing all of us ex-church employees -- but I think it could at least supply what sounds like a hunger for meaningful spiritual vocation. If you feel called by God (and I think you do), perhaps it isn't necessary to get a call back from His HR department. Maybe you just go to work?
Thank you, Justin. I have considered this plenty over the years. At this stage, I am open if God gives me reason to believe He is calling me to it. Appreciate you, friend.
Dave,
My thought as I read this was, maybe start your own ministry in the trenches, using your garage as your office for now.
Find those in need and minister to them. I believe God will show you the way in which He wants you to serve Him at this time in your life.
I realize that you need to provide for your family; God will provide 😌
Praying for you, my dear brother.
Thank you, Anna. I appreciate your continued support and encouragement. Those books ARE in the garage already, so maybe this isn't such a bad idea - ha! Blessings on you and yours.